Jacinta Price leader of the NO campaign has given an interview to the organisation ‘Better Balanced Futures’ that represents the faith communities in Australia which HCA is also a part of.
Below is the full transcript of the interview done by Dwayne Jeffries from Hope Media on behalf of Bright Balance Future.
Interviewed by Dwayne Jeffries, on behalf of Better Balanced Futures, representing the combined faith communities of Australia.
DWAYNE:
Senator, thank you so much for your time, and for spending some valuable moments with the combined faith communities of Australia, a very large group who care deeply, naturally enough, about the position and the rights of Indigenous Australians. Can I ask how you are right now with the nature of the debate? What impact has it had on you?
JACINTA NAMPIJINPA PRICE:
Well, let’s just say I am very exhausted – the amount of travel, the energy that’s required to get around the country and talk about an issue that is I think very personal to me, as well, it’s definitely taken a lot out of me. But, I have to keep going.
DWAYNE:
With the headlines being very much focused on the immediate referendum, could you share a little bit with our listeners: what the real state of affairs is for people you love and care for in the Indigenous communities around Australia?
JACINTA NAMPIJINPA PRICE:
Yeah sure. Well I guess, with my own family, my mother is from the community of Yuendumu. She was born under a tree, her first language is not English, it’s Warlpiri. Predominantly, most of my family are Warlpiri speakers, they’re first-language speakers, as
opposed to English, you know, is not their first language. Growing up in a place like Alice Springs, having a lot of contact with the remote Indigenous communities where my family lived, I saw… you know I have lived first-hand the sorts of issues that they are being confronted with. Alcohol and drug abuse, domestic and family violence – circumstances that I have grown up understanding quite well in my life. I was very lucky to have a very loving family with my parents, but our extended family experienced and still experiences these things. Some of the most marginalised Australians in the country.
DWAYNE:
And these are common experiences?
JACINTA NAMPIJINPA PRICE:
In a place like the Northern Territory, very common. You know there aren’t many Indigenous families that don’t have a family member who’s suffering from alcohol or substance abuse, gambling, or some form of addiction, in the Northern Territory. We have a lot of my family who are still very connected to traditional culture, and cultural obligations. My mother was supposed to be part of an arranged marriage and become a second wife at the age of 13 when she was younger, so there are elements of traditional culture that still impact my family’s lives. Much in a very positive way, but there are also elements of our culture that I guess do things like accept violence like if there is wrongdoing – you know if there is wrongdoing, there is an expectation that cultural payback is applied. Any premature death or illness is thought to be caused by sorcery, and there has to be somebody held responsible and some form of payback – and sometimes that payback involves violence. These are the sorts of day-to-day lives that people live in the Northern Territory.
DWAYNE:
Given those complex backgrounds, how can faith communities contribute toward drawing the nation together, Indigenous and other Australians?
JACINTA NAMPIJINPA PRICE:
Well, the faith community has had a lot of influence throughout communities within the Northern Territory. The missionaries provided, during the violence of the frontier, the missionaries provided safe haven for a lot of Indigenous groups – so my mother was brought up as a Baptist in her community, and there are other communities that are in the Lutheran community, as well as Catholic. It depends on which community you are from, it usually determines your faith, because, there have been missionaries who have long been involved with those communities. And I think it’s not acknowledged enough the good work that was done, back in the day, to not just provide safe haven against the violence of the frontier, but also provide the opportunity for Indigenous Australians to become skilled and become part of the Australian economy as well – and learning, learning those skills into employment and those sorts of things. So, and there is a lot of work that is done in the faith communities throughout the Northern Territory, to support our indigenous Australians, because, of course you know, it comes with those communities. The fact that – obviously, you know, my family and my community are Indigenous, but they are Australians as well and often Australians in need.
DWAYNE:
As a vocal opponent of the voice to parliament – if it’s not going to be this profile of response, what, in your recommendation, is the way to go?
JACINTA NAMPIJINPA PRICE:
Well, the way to go, as I see it is, well, my biggest concern is I think it’s separatism. I believe it’s separatism that has brought us to the situation that we are currently confronted with, as Indigenous Australians, being treated differently, being treated in some cases like charity cases, that will always require somebody else to scoop in and rescue us when… removing our agency, and having the ability to stand on their own two feet. But, going forward, what I would like to see is – and I am prepared to roll my sleeves up and get my hands dirty as the shadow minister for Indigenous Australians – to look at the structures that currently do exist. Because we do have many voices within those structures and bureaucracies and currently I have a motion on the floor of the Senate – which myself and Senator Kerrynne Liddle from South Australia, who is also an Aboriginal woman, an Arrernte woman, we’ve drafted this motion because we want to hold an inquiry into land councils, statutory authorities, bureaucracies that receive federal funding and are responsible for improving the lives of marginalised Indigenous Australians. I would like to fix the problem – the system that currently exists – and provide more accountability measures going forward. I just don’t think we have done enough of that well enough, and creating a whole new very expensive bureaucracy, and slapping it over the top of all of that that currently exists, I don’t believe is the way forward.
DWAYNE:
The voice has been variously described and I quote, as “powerless or patronising”, and others believe it to be an open door to activism and a disruption to all lives across the country. What is your view of what the voice is?
JACINTA NAMPIJINPA PRICE:
Well, simply put, we don’t know what it is we just don’t know because we don’t have a solid proposal that we can, hand on heart, say that we feel informed enough to say yes to. I believe, If we listen to the proponents of the voice and their arguments, and certainly what’s been written in Document 14, which is known as the Uluru statement, a lot of what exists in there, there is very little in the way of suggesting in practical terms how it is going to improve the lives of our marginalised. There are, however certainly plans or demands for reparations, paying the rent, you know, creating even a separate sort of power, if you like, a separate kind of black parliament or chamber. To me, separatism doesn’t work. But attempting to meet the demands of activists continually isn’t about supporting our most marginalised, and it hasn’t got us anywhere so far, in practical terms.
DWAYNE:
Every voting household around the country received a pamphlet, that I am assuming you contributed to, which had both the ‘yes’ and ‘no’ case in it. In the interests of an alternative view, there isn’t a statement on the ‘yes’ side that includes some of the things you just mentioned. How do we define the difference between facts and non-facts?
JACINTA NAMPIJINPA PRICE:
Well, there isn’t anything, really, to give us the confidence of what this is going to look like, because, I mean, I have undertaken the task of questioning the government on the floor of the Senate from 6:00 pm at night till 4:00 am in the morning, to understand better the detail, to understand how people are supposed to be, whether they are elected or whether they’re chosen. What I have been told is that they will be chosen by community members. That concerns me deeply, because I am also an advocate against domestic and family violence, and in a lot of small communities they are controlled quite often by the most aggressive individuals. So, if it’s suggested that we just leave it up to the decisions of communities, in that way, that is just opening a can of worms for conflict, for the most aggressive to eventually take control and end up being the representative. And these are the concerns that are brought to me also by Indigenous people in remote communities, of how this is all supposed to pan out, and how two people… we don’t know whether they’re…. You know for the Northern Territory it’s being proposed, but we don't know until after we voted yes, it’s supposed to be all put together after the fact, I mean, we don’t know how two Indigenous people from the Northern Territory are supposed to represent everybody. I mean, you know, I am related to so many Indigenous groups, so many different groups, and there is already infighting within the structures that exist. So I believe this will just provide more opportunity for that level of conflict, and a lot of Indigenous Australians are concerned for that. And, as you know, well we don’t really know what it’s supposed to be.
DWAYNE:
The charge that’s being put to the no campaign is “you don’t like this, what do you want to do?”, to solve the great gap issues between Indigenous Australians and other Australians. What is your response to that? What do, what does, the ‘no’ campaign stand for?
JACINTA NAMPIJINPA PRICE:
Sure. Well, lucky for me, prior to coming into the senate, I headed up the Indigenous research programme for the Centre for Independent Studies, and what we found was – you know, for me, it’s about, the starting point has to be from an honest perspective. So, the gap doesn’t exist between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians, the gap exists between those who have and those who have not. Now, the further you move away from a capital city, the more marginalised Australians become – everybody – but, our most marginalised, and within the Indigenous community (which is 3% of Australians), only 20% of those are, in fact, marginalised. So, the voice is suggesting that we are inherently disadvantaged for no other reason but our race, but there is an Indigenous middle class that is doing very, very well for ourselves. The focus shouldn’t be on all Indigenous Australians. It should be on those who are marginalised, and you watch, you will find, and what we found in my research, is that the most marginalised are those whose first language is not English, who are still connected to traditional culture, and living in regional and remote parts of the country. So, what I would do is, I would pinpoint where the most marginalised are, and focus efforts, in terms of priority, on them. But, ultimately service Australians on the basis of need, as opposed to race.
DWAYNE:
It appears, polls are telling us, that the ‘no’ campaign could well be victorious, in the run-up through this referendum. What would be the outcome if that were to be the case? And I’d like to hear from you, what your thoughts are, if it were to be a ‘yes’.
JACINTA NAMPIJINPA PRICE:
Sure. Well, look, I think, either way, I think this is the most divisive referendum we’ve ever experienced in our nation’s history, and so it concerns me either way. It’s not, it’s not going to be a win for anybody, I don’t think, whether it’s a yes, whether ‘yes’ is successful or ‘no’ was successful, and there is going to have to be a lot of work done going forward to bring our country back together. I mean, I haven’t seen the issue of race, so prominently, for some time in our country. So if ‘no’ gets up, for me, as the shadow minister, as I said, I am trying to kick off a process already of accountability, of understanding where the money is being spent, and providing the opportunity for it to be better focused and spent to produce outcomes – that is what I am pushing for, and that’s what I’ll continue to push for after the fact. If the yes vote is successful, I will be fighting tooth and nail from the Senate to ensure that there is the least destructive model of what this might be is created. You know, and it’s been suggested, that we will all have a say in it, it’s all wonderful. Well, I’ve been in the Senate, and if you don’t have the numbers you don’t have that much influence. So I think it’s wrong to suggest that, you know, I will play any significant role – it’s only it’s at the whim of the government, whether they want anyone else other than the Greens, who support them, to play a role in determining what this might look like. And look, a couple of other points that I want to make on this issue, also, is that: one, and, particularly, I know, there is a great migrant community here too, and, I think, for me, as an Australian, we have a wonderful shared Australian value that we have all created together. Whether we are from the first peoples, whether we are from the convict class, who are my ancestors, also, or whether we’re from the migrant community who have come here more recently. I’m married to a proud ‘Scossie’ who is a recent Australian, and I would hate to see our country create classes of people determined by heritage in this country, I am dead-set against it. I would not want someone who come here more recently to feel as though they’re less Australian. So that is another reason why I can’t agree with this. But also that the voice, the entity itself, once constitutionally enshrined, has the constitutional power and right to challenge the executive – which is the parliament, federal parliament, which is state and territory parliaments, local government, which are the departments and the agencies, the bureaucracies, the Governor General, even. I mean if they put forward an argument enough, where they’re not pleased with a draft bill or something like that, they can challenge that in the High Court which is their constitutional right to do so, which, you know, becomes the dirt in the cogs, you know, slowing parliament down, and that’s concerning if it comes to any issues of emergency-related issues. Or even, you know, matters that affect Indigenous Australians are everything, because we are, we are Australians.
DWAYNE:
Time is short, I have one last question for you. You spoke about division in the process of this referendum. What’s your heart for what comes after? How do we re-knit into an Australia of your dreams, from here?
JACINTA NAMPIJINPA PRICE:
Yeah, that’s a tough question. I mean, for me personally, I feel like I’ve been on a journey with this referendum. My hope, be somebody who has an Aboriginal mother and a white Australian father and a migrant husband, and I mean my children, their background is of mixed heritage too. My kids, we’ve got a blended family, so I have a step-son and my three sons have got Irish, Scottish, Welsh, English, French, Malay, Indian, a little bit Chinese, a great, great grandfather from Mozambique… you know I’ve said they could probably make a land claim on every continent on the globe… but that is beside the point. Again, for me, it’s about bringing us back to our wonderful shared Australian culture and our wonderful shared Australian values. I don’t want to see any more guilt politics within our country. I know that the vast majority of Australians have immense goodwill toward Indigenous Australians and so I see myself railing against guilt politics, the demands of activists to entrench this idea as though Indigenous Australians need to be treated differently to everybody else when we don’t. We’ve got a wonderful country that provides the opportunity for every Australian to succeed. For our most marginalised, it’s about focusing our efforts on them to ensure that they know how to take those opportunities for their lives and understand that they do have choices as well, and that is a remarkable part of our country.
DWAYNE:
Senator Nampijinpa Price, thank you so much for sharing with the faith communities of Australia.
JACINTA NAMPIJINPA PRICE:
Thank you so much.
